Oooh this is funny.

This feature has been available since Alpha Testing, not here nor the official forum has a thread about it. Now a person makes a thread about it to share it with the community, and all of the sudden it's "pro this", "lazy that", "advanced something else" "bla bla bla" "whine whine whine".

Grow up people. If you don't like Macro's, don't friggin use them. If you do like them, you'll use them no doubt.

Originally posted by Schaapje

Oooh this is funny.

This feature has been available since Alpha Testing, not here nor the official forum has a thread about it. Now a person makes a thread about it to share it with the community, and all of the sudden it's "pro this", "lazy that", "advanced something else" "bla bla bla" "whine whine whine".

 

Grow up people. If you don't like Macro's, don't friggin use them. If you do like them, you'll use them no doubt.

It's just one more thing for the dedicated whiners to whine about. If it's not this, it would be something else.

Some people just need constant attention, I guess.

Originally posted by Clubmaster22

Originally posted by zaxxon23

Of course writing macros isn't epic, nor is it hardcore or advanced.  It is simply another level of complexity that should benefit those who take the time to learn it.  MMOs aren't just about "epicness", they're also about a huge and complex system that takes time to learn and master. 

Obviously, we have different ideas on what a mmo should be about.

"Complexity" and "beeing complicated" is not the same. We are talking about different layers of gamedesign here. Every MMO on the market is more or less complex, that's one of the benefits of the genre. This is nothing special. But it was already mentioned that the complexities should be in the content not in basic functionality. It is rewarding and well worth it to theorize about boss strategies, skills, gearing or how to go about a difficult quest or task. It is not fun however if i need a makro to change my weapon. The "content" of this task is in no way shape or form "complex", on the contrary: it's ridiculously simple and if it's a hassle to do these simple things it's becoming frustrating. Not because the Player is "too stupid" but because boring and simple tasks like this shouldn't stand in the way of the real game.

No, not every mmo on the market is more or less complex.  Wow is pathetically non-complex, and its many clones have copied the formula.  There's nothing wrong with that formula, if that's what you like (and obviously there are many people that do like this formula).  But for me, I found it boring and stagnant.  What will I do in wow tonight?  I'll raid one of those "epic" encounters.  What will I be doing for the next few weeks?  The next few months?  The next few years?  Yeah, raiding more of those "epic" encounters.

I actually LIKE having to do a little research on a game to learn how to play it.  I LIKE learning what different macros are out there, I LIKE possibly making my own.  I LIKE taking macros others have made and tweaking them for my own uses.  I LIKE the fact that I have used hours of time to learn this stuff without even playing the game, because that's more game for me to enjoy when I actually do get around to playing it!

To me, VARIETY has always been the staple of a good mmo.  Variety in battle, pvp, crafting, city bulding, politics, etc.  I like 'em all.  I also like time learning the mechanics of the game.  That's all content to me.  Obviously, it is not to you, and that is just fine.  But I just can't help but think that you ALREADY have a game that's purely focused on just the epic stuff that you mentioned.  It's called wow.  Why are you not playing it?  No macros, nothing but pure epic sauce.  You've already got your dream game, now let us work on ours.

I don't give a rats ass about FFXIV, but anyone that's delusional to the point that thinking that macros are elite or hardcore is just wrong.

Macros are the least skillfull or hardcore feature possible, it basically means the developers let the players 1 button smash for alot of actions.

Macroing is preety much an automatism, preety much just a way to "cheat" for people that don't want to have a balanced gameplay.

And in this case a way for developers to have an excuse for not having some features in game.

Originally posted by zaxxon23

No, not every mmo on the market is more or less complex.  Wow is pathetically non-complex, and its many clones have copied the formula.  There's nothing wrong with that formula, if that's what you like (and obviously there are many people that do like this formula).  But for me, I found it boring and stagnant.  What will I do in wow tonight?  I'll raid one of those "epic" encounters.  What will I be doing for the next few weeks?  The next few months?  The next few years?  Yeah, raiding more of those "epic" encounters.

I actually LIKE having to do a little research on a game to learn how to play it.  I LIKE learning what different macros are out there, I LIKE possibly making my own.  I LIKE taking macros others have made and tweaking them for my own uses.  I LIKE the fact that I have used hours of time to learn this stuff without even playing the game, because that's more game for me to enjoy when I actually do get around to playing it!

To me, VARIETY has always been the staple of a good mmo.  Variety in battle, pvp, crafting, city bulding, politics, etc.  I like 'em all.  I also like time learning the mechanics of the game.  That's all content to me.  Obviously, it is not to you, and that is just fine.  But I just can't help but think that you ALREADY have a game that's purely focused on just the epic stuff that you mentioned.  It's called wow.  Why are you not playing it?  No macros, nothing but pure epic sauce.  You've already got your dream game, now let us work on ours.

Ok, so you won't answer to my posting (which had nothing to do with wow) and instead turn to wow-bashing again. This is so tiresome, i really don't know  what to say anymore.

I definitely agree with clubmaster on this. And I find it disappointing how fanboys in this topic defend such bad choices that SE Has made. UI is terrible. Having a bad, unresponsive, inefficient UI doesn't mean it is 'complex'. It just means it is unreponsive, and inefficient. Macros for most MMO's are used for advance actions, the fact that one must use macro's for the most basic of actions in FFXIV's UI speaks of bad design. I'm surprised at the amount of arrogance that some of the people here have.

Originally posted by Clubmaster22

Originally posted by zaxxon23

Of course writing macros isn't epic, nor is it hardcore or advanced.  It is simply another level of complexity that should benefit those who take the time to learn it.  MMOs aren't just about "epicness", they're also about a huge and complex system that takes time to learn and master. 

Obviously, we have different ideas on what a mmo should be about.

"Complexity" and "beeing complicated" is not the same. We are talking about different layers of gamedesign here. Every MMO on the market is more or less complex, that's one of the benefits of the genre. This is nothing special. But it was already mentioned that the complexities should be in the content not in basic functionality. It is rewarding and well worth it to theorize about boss strategies, skills, gearing or how to go about a difficult quest or task. It is not fun however if i need a makro to change my weapon. The "content" of this task is in no way shape or form "complex", on the contrary: it's ridiculously simple and if it's a hassle to do these simple things it's becoming frustrating. Not because the Player is "too stupid" but because boring and simple tasks like this shouldn't stand in the way of the real game.

While the notion of equipping items and equipping actions is simple.  In this context, its actually really complex.  Its not like other MMOs where you can have as many actions hotkeyed as you want.  There are rules in place here that make it a complex design issue.

For one, the game determines your "class" via what you have equipped.  The actions that you can use are determined via your "class".   Throw in action points (these limit your ability to equip actions) and its quite daunting.  Throw in the fact that you can equip actions that are outside of your class in some instances (you can equip "Cure" even though you are currently a "Gladiator")

The game unequips actions that aren't valid.  For example, you have "Arbor Call" equipped, which is a botanist action.  It requires botanist to be your class in order to use.  You equip a cane, which is a conjury weapon.  The game automatically unslots "Arbor Call".  However, it doesn't do the reverse - that is - it doesn't equip valid actions. 

It would be nice if there was a equipment and action preset UI feature that would allow you to graphically assign gear and actions to a given preset.  The macro system, while "advanced" does provide this functionality quite nicely.  I would argue that the amount of time taken to create such a macro would be the same amount of time to set up a preset graphically - should it ever exist.

Having some professional software design experience, when it comes time to release a product, certain features get cut.  I imagine designing a UI feature to support a more streamline "job-switching" experience was cut because macros solved that very issue.  "Do we spend money developing something the client can already do? Or do we put this in the backlog and actually fix bugs?"  I'm not saying I think Macros are the end-all solution for this, but for now, they will have to do.

Lastly, if you are not enjoying FF14, that is perfectly fine.  This thread was created to provide a bit of know-how to those that would like to switch jobs quickly and improve their game playing experience - as it is frustrating when you come across a tree prime for harvesting and you start fumbling with your inventory just so you can get some resources - only to remuck with your inventory so you can kill rodents again.

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by Alders

Originally posted by ironhelix

Originally posted by Clubmaster22

I never used scripts in FFXI, nor did many others I knew. We didn't even use Windower. We did just fine without them. So your entire post fails on that premise alone... this is why you should avoid generalizations. Or at least keep them to yourself.

I spent 10 minutes creating macros for my jobs, and that was it. I was done with them and never had to touch them again until I wanted to change something or add something new.

That said, if writing macros that take maybe a minute to create, at most, is enough to send some of you off the deep end the way it is (along with having to press 1 extra button to complete a task it seems), then all I can say is... I really hope you're not intending to play FFXIV. The fewer whiners I have to put on my blacklist, the better.

You missunderstand opinion and critique for whining. Happens all the time here so it's ok.

Also everyone i knew used scripts, aka Spellcast, as it was the most efficient way of min/maxing we had. It's not possible to do so with the intended 6 lines of space that the game offered you. When you create such an intricate system of changing every piece of gear to fully maximize the threat mechanics, spell potency, and damage output but limit the system with poor implementation, players resort to 3rd party apps. While yes, it is the players choice at that point, I'd rather they evolve the system internally.

Again, it's a matter of play styles i suppose and what you want to get out of it.

My point is: It should be sufficient to arrange equipment and skills ONCE. A game that basically allows you to do all the available classes just by switching your weapon, it should be common sense that the corresponding equipment sets and action bars are saved and applied as soon as the specific weapon catagory is equipped. This is not that hard to do.

Example: Your're an Archer and therefore have the bow equipped. You arrange your skills on the skill bar and equip the corresponding gear for that class. Then you equip One-Hand Sword. Because how the class-system works, the game should be able of knowing, that once you equipped a sword you changed from Archer to Gladiator. As soon as your sword is equipped the action bars should empty out, so that the Gladiatzor Skills can be alloted to the skillbar slots as you like it. Same with gear. As Soon as you switch back to Archer, the Actionbars should be filled with the archerskills again as you left them before you switched to the sword. For a jobsystem like this, things like that should by common sense for a gamedesigner.

This isn't "hand-holding" because skillpriority and geararrangements are completly up to you. It's just basic functionallity. If the gamedesigners don't want you to switch fast midbattle, then don't allow it or apply a castingtime to gearchange. It's all really simple.

Originally posted by Zeppelin4

Originally posted by StrahdZ

Originally posted by Clubmaster22

So it's like FF XI all over again. To expect from new players to programm macros from the get go is a kick in the balls right there. Unbelievable. Macros should be ADVANCED techniques for experienced players not a mandatory chore to achieve the simplest of things all other games handle either automatically or with one button. What the hell where they thinking? It's 2010!

It took me all of 5 minutes to look the macro commands up on the internet and enter them in.  If that's what you call "Advanced techniques", then maybe you ought to start with coloring books and work your way up.

The game has so little guidance you find youself needing to alt tab out all the time to look things up. I don't have a issue with this other then you can't alt tab out of the game without a crash and it ruins the flow of the game.

Hold on, I think you are on to something here We all know that the main reason for open beta is to test how much the servers can take. So to deal with server load, SE makes the game with frustrating mechanics and do not provide any instructions ingame on how to do anything making players have to alt tab out to search on the net. Then make the game so it crashes anytime you alt tab out thus reducing the load on the servers......my god its BRILLIANT!!! I think you might have just stumbled on the entire reason for this open beta.

The macro system in this game is simple as hell,  there is no way you could have trouble with this system. It took me 5 minutes to do it as well, now i update my macro everytime i get a new skill, i rearrange the order, i wrote them all down in note pad so i can remember them for quick usage if need be.

I use macros for skills, swapping classes, swapping gear, its not difficult and if you think it is advance programming feel free to pm me and i will break it down for you.

To the OP:  Nice Job

OP Thanks for pointing the macro system out, made life a lot easier. I had strange results with skills not clearing properly and skills disappearing when I first set the macros up, logging out then back in fixed that and they worked perfectly.

I almost feel a little sorry for the OP.  He started a very helpful thread with some good info for those who are seeking to create a few macros, or to introduce the macro system for some who may not be familiar to it.

All of a sudden, a bomb went off as the following posters started to take sides and square off and start shooting at the sky.

Not one little thank you until these last couple of posts.  Not one little, " oh cool! thanks for the info!" "good to know! Gonna start trying these out now!"

Nothing!

...so thanks, op...good info and I think we need more of these helpful threads.  

There are sooooooo many threads of people going on about hating the game or loving the game and what's wrong or right.  But I know there are people who are looking for help on actually playing the game as well and therefore posts like the OP's are very much welcomed.  It just seems like sometimes we lose sight of what the thread was initially about and the pit of hate gets deeper and deeper with every quote and reply.

Thank you again, Sir for the good info!!  :)

Aye, thanks for the OP. I would also like to add that if anyone reading this thread is looking for help on the game they try using google. There are some very helpful guides created by people from CB. You can find everything from crafting recipies, emotes, to stat descriptions & skills for each class. Very useful.

I agree that the information provided is well written, helpful and deserves a thank you.

The issue as to if such a mechanism is needed as an entirely different issue. Some of the positions that have been taken are a bit simplistic. Simply saying that it is either too simple, too hard or what ever misses the point really. Having a complex game is not necessarily a bad thing but adding complexity simply to be complex generally is. There needs to be a specific point to why something is implemented the way it is. On the surface it would appear that this need to switch equipment around should be rethought and possibly redesigned. The existence of a macro system certainly is helpful in mitigating the difficulty in swapping equipment but why design a way around one difficulty by implementing a second one that seems to be as equally torturous?

Not sure about this game for a lot of reasons but at least it has generated a lot of threads.

Originally posted by rwmiller

I agree that the information provided is well written, helpful and deserves a thank you.

 

The issue as to if such a mechanism is needed as an entirely different issue. Some of the positions that have been taken are a bit simplistic. Simply saying that it is either too simple, too hard or what ever misses the point really. Having a complex game is not necessarily a bad thing but adding complexity simply to be complex generally is. There needs to be a specific point to why something is implemented the way it is. On the surface it would appear that this need to switch equipment around should be rethought and possibly redesigned. The existence of a macro system certainly is helpful in mitigating the difficulty in swapping equipment but why design a way around one difficulty by implementing a second one that seems to be as equally torturous?

 

Not sure about this game for a lot of reasons but at least it has generated a lot of threads.

Another good insight. Swapping does indeed have a lot of problems (it's tedious, errors with macros switching certain skills, etc.) In a way the swapping adds for a lot of customization, but as a whole all it seems to do is merge classes together, instead of being able to come up w/ new, unique ones. A lot of the skills across classes are somewhat redundant (TP attacks primarily) meaning that the only real cross-class usage comes from utility (heals, debuffs, buffs). However, as you level your characters up, you need to sacrifice less and less to get such utility, defeating the purpose of having such a complex system to begin w/. I'd argue they got more customization out of the FFXI job system (main/sub) than they are getting with the current weapon-based system. It doesn't make much sense the way it is currently.

Cool beans, thanks for dropping this info.  It's a bit ponderous to have to write out an extravagant macro for switching jobs, true, but not nearly as ponderous as having to re-equip my weapon and abilities manually every time I want to go from being a disciple of land to disciple of war and back.   It would be ideal if they simply remembered all abilities you had equipped when you last had that job and automatically reassign them when you swap your gear... but that this workaround exists is nonetheless a godsend.  I hope to give that a try just as soon as they get done with this emergency maintenence.

Originally posted by Clubmaster22

This is so incredibly stupid from every possible point of few that one doesn't even know where to begin with. I'm beginning to think, that the FF XIV community will consist of delusional pseudo-elitist, who think of themselves as "advanced" because they prefer to eat with their feet, because a Spoon is "for stupid people", am i right? Priceless.

Wow man relax.  You know you can do all of this without macros right?  It isn't the only way...  It is just an option, an advanced option to make the game more customizeable and easy to handle.  What is your deal?

I dunno, I find it extremly stupid that the game doesn't save and auto-equip the actions you had equiped on the job last, and that your forced to do it manually every time.