I have tried three trials. To me, EVE is the best player advertised game out there. People describe these awesome, immersive accounts of the battles, the economies, the corporate warfare. You can be a great pirate captain, fight for your friends and profit, become a captain of industry. On paper, it sounds awesome, and I wanted to much to be a part of that.

But for me, those players are showing you the finished sausage, hot and steaming on your plate with a nice side dish. They are not showing all the screaming pigs that had to die and be shoved into sheep intestines to make it. 

Overly dramatic metaphor, but kind of my take on it. If the game were more accessible, or if getting to the point where you were ready for low sec was more fun, this game would have millions of players. The problem was, for me, is that the effort it took to get to the good stuff, was just f*&cking boring--even with friends. I know that the good stuff is there, at the end. But for me, the game needs to be fun the whole way through. It's my hobby, my fun, my escape from the daily grind. I just can't put in my 10 hours at work, come home and put in another 5 on the computer so that, one day, I can do the fun stuff too....

Which sucks, because I know there is a good game there. I just cannot make it my priority to get to it...

By the way, please don't read this as a complaint, or a wishing to dumb down the game. I would not want that for the people who did put in all the hard work to play the game they love. I have had games I loved changed out from under me, and that sucks badly. I will just have to accept that I am one of the unwashed masses when it comes to this game, and hope something as cool and immersive comes along for me one day.

Originally posted by Calfis

Originally posted by Findariel

Personally I really don't get the people who vote for EVE as "game of the year".

Tonight I came home from work, logged on EVE and teamspeak. One of the fleet commanders organized a casual roam into enemy territory. We set out with just 18 of us, less than we had hoped but meh should still be enough to go at it with somebody. We went to the enemy's capital system, no dice the locals stayed docked in the station. One of our guys in the solar system next door said he was being engaged by about a dozen members of TEST Alliance Please Ignore. Fleet commander orders him to "aggress" the enemy as we warp to the out gate. A couple of them had jumped thru to check the system. We saw them on the outgate but jumped in anyway. When we loaded the system we saw the tail end of their warp outs, they had run away from us.

 

As our fleet commander was reassessing the situation (i.e. deciding where to go next since apparently everyone here was scared) one of our other FCs who was solo scouting jumped into our channel and asked us where we were. He had spotted 2 carriers doing some PvE nearby and had found one of the instances one of the said carriers is in. It was 11 jumps (solar systems) away. Our commander orders us to burn at best speed to one jump out of the target system with our two light tackle ships taking the lead. That same scout then reported that one carrier had warped to the local station and docked. The other carrier was still "ratting" but was aligned towards the station and could warp there at the click of a mouse.

 

When our light tackle reached the stargate that led into the target system they were told to hold while a plan was being formulated. It was decided that tackler with warp disruption bubbles would jump in, warp to our scout who had a good 'spot' off the station and set up a bubble then wait till the scout warped back the carrier location sothe second tackle could jump in and warp there to attempt a tackle.

 

We executed our plan, the bubble was set up in seconds, the scout then warped back to the spot he had bookmarked near the carrier. As soon as our scout landed he reports the carrier warping off towards the station, jackpot. To the carrier pilot's dismay instead of landing next to the station and docking he was dragged about 60km away from the station, far outside the docking range. Our first light tackle was waiting right there for him on the bubble, he activates his warp disruption module on the carrier as it trys to slowly engine back to towards the station, moving at a mere 100 meters a second. 

 

Our main fleet lands on the gate, the commanders orders everyone to jump in and warp to our light tackle who is firmly keeping the carrier from escaping. The carrier pilot cries out for help in local chat, about half a dozen ships undock from the station and watch haplessly as the carrier's tank begins to melt under our guns. None of them make any sort of motion towards us, they simply target us and take pot shots with the long range guns of their battleships. Our commander instructs us to ignore them and concentrate fire on the carrier. The station huggers get lucky and manage to pop our smallest ship with help from the doomed carrier. As the carrier explodes, his friends at the station seemed to have found there nerve as more of them undock and a battle ensues.

 

We call for more reinforcements over teamspeak, but they beat us to the punch as they begin to outnumber our small initial fleet and the ones we destroyed redock only to come out and fight some more. We take some losses including myself. The commander orders a withdraw so we can head back home and reorganize/regroup with a stronger force to drop on them.

 

*Note the battlereport is skewed since it included the later battle where we came back (I didn't, needed a new ship heh) with a greater force and kicked their shat back into their arses. However there is a timeline of the battle at the bottom of the report which details when things died. First fight ended shortly after 4:05 GMT.

 

 

Great write up, this is exactly why I enjoyed my time in EVE so much.  Unfortunately my current schedule doesn't permit me enough time to join OPS like this anymore so the game isn't one I can play anymore.

Now, if that darn powerball lottery win will just come through I might get a chance to return.

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Originally posted by Kyleran

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Originally posted by Calfis

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Originally posted by Findariel

Personally I really don't get the people who vote for EVE as "game of the year".

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Tonight I came home from work, logged on EVE and teamspeak. One of the fleet commanders organized a casual roam into enemy territory. We set out with just 18 of us, less than we had hoped but meh should still be enough to go at it with somebody. We went to the enemy's capital system, no dice the locals stayed docked in the station. One of our guys in the solar system next door said he was being engaged by about a dozen members of TEST Alliance Please Ignore. Fleet commander orders him to "aggress" the enemy as we warp to the out gate. A couple of them had jumped thru to check the system. We saw them on the outgate but jumped in anyway. When we loaded the system we saw the tail end of their warp outs, they had run away from us.
 
As our fleet commander was reassessing the situation (i.e. deciding where to go next since apparently everyone here was scared) one of our other FCs who was solo scouting jumped into our channel and asked us where we were. He had spotted 2 carriers doing some PvE nearby and had found one of the instances one of the said carriers is in. It was 11 jumps (solar systems) away. Our commander orders us to burn at best speed to one jump out of the target system with our two light tackle ships taking the lead. That same scout then reported that one carrier had warped to the local station and docked. The other carrier was still "ratting" but was aligned towards the station and could warp there at the click of a mouse.
 
When our light tackle reached the stargate that led into the target system they were told to hold while a plan was being formulated. It was decided that tackler with warp disruption bubbles would jump in, warp to our scout who had a good 'spot' off the station and set up a bubble then wait till the scout warped back the carrier location sothe second tackle could jump in and warp there to attempt a tackle.
 
We executed our plan, the bubble was set up in seconds, the scout then warped back to the spot he had bookmarked near the carrier. As soon as our scout landed he reports the carrier warping off towards the station, jackpot. To the carrier pilot's dismay instead of landing next to the station and docking he was dragged about 60km away from the station, far outside the docking range. Our first light tackle was waiting right there for him on the bubble, he activates his warp disruption module on the carrier as it trys to slowly engine back to towards the station, moving at a mere 100 meters a second. 
 
Our main fleet lands on the gate, the commanders orders everyone to jump in and warp to our light tackle who is firmly keeping the carrier from escaping. The carrier pilot cries out for help in local chat, about half a dozen ships undock from the station and watch haplessly as the carrier's tank begins to melt under our guns. None of them make any sort of motion towards us, they simply target us and take pot shots with the long range guns of their battleships. Our commander instructs us to ignore them and concentrate fire on the carrier. The station huggers get lucky and manage to pop our smallest ship with help from the doomed carrier. As the carrier explodes, his friends at the station seemed to have found there nerve as more of them undock and a battle ensues.
 
We call for more reinforcements over teamspeak, but they beat us to the punch as they begin to outnumber our small initial fleet and the ones we destroyed redock only to come out and fight some more. We take some losses including myself. The commander orders a withdraw so we can head back home and reorganize/regroup with a stronger force to drop on them.
 
*Note the battlereport is skewed since it included the later battle where we came back (I didn't, needed a new ship heh) with a greater force and kicked their shat back into their arses. However there is a timeline of the battle at the bottom of the report which details when things died. First fight ended shortly after 4:05 GMT.
 
 

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Great write up, this is exactly why I enjoyed my time in EVE so much.  Unfortunately my current schedule doesn't permit me enough time to join OPS like this anymore so the game isn't one I can play anymore.
Now, if that darn powerball lottery win will just come through I might get a chance to return.
 

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This is the thing, after several of months getting to the stage where you can take part in ops like this without being a liability, you still need the excessive time for them to happen.

This wouldn't have been a daily occurance, maybe weekly at best and i'm betting that was all over the course of several hours. The one battle alone was 2 hours and thats following all the hunting and waiting.

I remember when i would do ops, wouldn't be unusual to spend 8 hours until you finally find a fight and what happens then is that you pop the odd single worthless stray ship, then they would reform somewhere else and pop your stray ships, no one would fight head to head. Until everyone gets bored, docks, then you get ganked.

Basically, i would suicide just so i could fire my weapons, else it's stalemate. Bigger ops are for the 'elite' who have played for years in big territory control. Couldn't even get into that stuff after a year playing for christ sake, what do they want from you.

Originally posted by Vegetto

 

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This is the thing, after several of months getting to the stage where you can take part in ops like this without being a liability, you still need the excessive time for them to happen.

This wouldn't have been a daily occurance, maybe weekly at best and i'm betting that was all over the course of several hours. The one battle alone was 2 hours and thats following all the hunting and waiting.

I remember when i would do ops, wouldn't be unusual to spend 8 hours until you finally find a fight and what happens then is that you pop the odd single worthless stray ship, then they would reform somewhere else and pop your stray ships, no one would fight head to head. Until everyone gets bored, docks, then you get ganked.

Basically, i would suicide just so i could fire my weapons, else it's stalemate. Bigger ops are for the 'elite' who have played for years in big territory control. Couldn't even get into that stuff after a year playing for christ sake, what do they want from you.

Yeah, I have to agree with you here, that is what eventually drove me from the game.

I'd log in already to fight, only to find out the OP of the day took place 3 hours earlier, or, was starting "soon" around 11:00 pm ET (past my bedtime), or if I managed to hit it just right, found myself having to log off early since it was obviously going to go on until the wee hours of the morning. (and what exactly was I supposed to do with my 250M ISK Battleship that was 20 jumps from any safe space?)

Now there were times I found a group with the right schedule, I was part of stealth corp that kept very regular ops hours, so we flew every night at 8:00 pm ET, hit our targets, returned to safety at 11:00 pm.

Or another wormhole group that followed the same schedule (well, we logged at midnight) but with that sort of regularity I had some real fun.

However in general big fleet ops and territory fights are far too random and require more flexibility than the average working stiff and accomodate, especially if their employers are like mine. (who think 55-60 hrs a week is normal)

Oh well, it is a fun game, unfortuantely not one for me these days.

There is really only one picture needed to show why Eve is no fun.

I mean can you even see that you are playing a space ship MMO? It's just a bunch of icons, tables and text. Most of the time you cant even see what you are fighting.

Originally posted by Yamota

There is really only one picture needed to show why Eve is no fun.

I mean can you even see that you are playing a space ship MMO? It's just a bunch of icons, tables and text. Most of the time you cant even see what you are fighting.

Actually, that doesn't really bother me, guess I have enough imagination that I never really notice that I'm not part of the action, but more visual people I can understand how that bothers them.

EVE is more like fighting from a submarine, or large naval ship where likely you'll never see the targets that you kill or end up killing you, all fought from your tactical simulation windows.

Originally posted by Kyleran

I mean can you even see that you are playing a space ship MMO? It's just a bunch of icons, tables and text. Most of the time you cant even see what you are fighting.

Actually, that doesn't really bother me, guess I have enough imagination that I never really notice that I'm not part of the action, but more visual people I can understand how that bothers them.

EVE is more like fighting from a submarine, or large naval ship where likely you'll never see the targets that you kill or end up killing you, all fought from your tactical simulation windows.

 

Which is fine if you dont expect a space opera (which I did from watching all the commercial vids that they are producing). Problem is that the actual game play rarely shows you what you see in the directed videos.

Kinda kills the immersion playing zoomed out lke that. I have it zoomed in so the ship is similar in size to what a character would be. I dunno how people can play purely from the tactical overhead display either, then it just feels like a MMORTS.

Which i suppose is the problem, it really is more of an RTS than anything else imo, which would help CCP if they billed it as such. It's hard to roleplay or feel you are part of a living universe when none of it is really visually there.

Walking in stations would have gone a long way to boosting EvEs popularity and solving this issue: But the vet community don't want 'newcomers' and boycotted the game over such developments. Very weird group of people, very much like a little village of the damned or more precisely, like Deliverance:

"You not from around here are ya?"
"Drop them britches boy!"

:)

Originally posted by Vegetto

But the vet community don't want 'newcomers' and boycotted the game over such developments. Very weird group of people, very much like a little village of the damned or more precisely, like Deliverance:

"You not from around here are ya?"
"Drop them britches boy!"

:)

Well once a community approves of themselves as being "the most hardcore" this is what tends to happen.. Not that newcomers will ruin the game, it's to get that exclusive feeling of, "I am the 1%".. They can't have that number rising to 5 or 10 now could they?

But yeah, I wish the game was more like the PC game Freelancer..

Originally posted by Vegetto

This is the thing, after several of months getting to the stage where you can take part in ops like this without being a liability, you still need the excessive time for them to happen.

This wouldn't have been a daily occurance, maybe weekly at best and i'm betting that was all over the course of several hours. The one battle alone was 2 hours and thats following all the hunting and waiting.

I remember when i would do ops, wouldn't be unusual to spend 8 hours until you finally find a fight and what happens then is that you pop the odd single worthless stray ship, then they would reform somewhere else and pop your stray ships, no one would fight head to head. Until everyone gets bored, docks, then you get ganked.

Basically, i would suicide just so i could fire my weapons, else it's stalemate. Bigger ops are for the 'elite' who have played for years in big territory control. Couldn't even get into that stuff after a year playing for christ sake, what do they want from you.

You are right, they don't happen everyday but they happen often enough (probably 3 or 4 times a week) to keep me happily with this group. I'm actually kind of glad it doesn't happen all the time because then I would spend all my time going on these ops instead of other menial but necessary tasks like shopping on the market for more pvp ships or grinding some isk to pay for em.

Yes, they are hours long ops but the FC does a good job of keeping us interested, there are always the ganks here and there while we are seeking a larger engagement. And its always fun to come into a system and have everyone else flying to safety because you are the big kids on the block so to speak. We've found that most people are more concerned about us than we are about them, especially true when we come into systems where we are outnumbered 3 to 1 and camp the station for a bit and yet people will not come out to meet us in force.

The bigger ops TBH are not as fun as the small to medium sized ones. It becomes much more of an overview game like the screens linked. The mid-sized to small engagements are much more dynamic, you are far more likely to be singled out/stand out in a group of 30 than a group of 170. As for as requirements for the bigger corps, for the one I'm in now requires 17Mil skill points minimum and killboard stats with at least 90% efficiency (isk) as well as being "active" which is measured by having kills on a monthly basis. You also have to be willing to go on mandatory territorial ops if said ops happen when you are online (they won't make you alarm clock, its up to you to come up with the minimum activity).

The last few posts bring up another valid problem with EVE. Many (not all, by any means, but many) players really view themselves as "elite" intellectual gamers. With their game being the "hardest" out there, many have little to no patience for new players. 

Don't get me wrong, some are very nice, and very helpful, but it does only take a few ass hats pooping in the pool to bring down the reputation of a whole community. I was not too put off by this, but I do know people who will not try EVE anymore on account of having a bad time with this eliteist attitude.

Basically i have had harder interviews for corps inside gamen than i have for corps outside of game...literally.

And the work and commitment required from these is also skewed heavier in EvE than irl!
Put it this way:

For a job, i am required to work set hours, to fill a slightly varying role, for pay/benefits.

In EvE, i am required to work set hours, to serve a set purpose, for the benefit of being involved.

I think if the vets stood back a bit and looked at the bigger picture, EvE is more work than work itself!
which begs the question: Would i have more fun with the money i earnt at work, in the 8 hours that could be spent in EvE waiting for a battle?

Well even on chinese wages, probably yes. Cost-benefit anaylsis ftw! Oh wait, i would play EvE if i was clever, i meant to say "Whoop-asss...yeeeaaah!, gimme guns and shit to blow up!" :)

To be fair, not all EVE Corporations require large skill points, extensive interviews, and X hour activity commitments. In much the same way that not all WoW guilds require you to raid 5 nights a week, or TF2 clans require you to attend scrimages every Monday and matches every Tuesday.

You pick your level of involvement. 

The difference being, you are not forced to compete against the TF2 players (simply don't play against them) or raid against the WoW guilds. 

You are forced to inhabit the same setting (0,0 space) with the ass hats in EVE because it *is* the only world. That's why my friends were put off.

Originally posted by Naral

The difference being, you are not forced to compete against the TF2 players (simply don't play against them) or raid against the WoW guilds. 

You are forced to inhabit the same setting (0,0 space) with the ass hats in EVE because it *is* the only world. That's why my friends were put off.

The only reason that is done is because the players are the end game. The inevitable drama that ensues from making all the high level players compete against each other is the content of the game. I actually just finished reading about 5 pages of forum "smug"  from enemies of my alliance mixed in with intermittent "tears" and "excuses" from my alliance's forum moutherpieces. Even being on the losing end of things its still thoroughly enjoyable to read all the chestbeating, trolling, and nerdrage that ensues as a result of battles in the game. Its interesting because it is one world.

Originally posted by Calfis

Originally posted by Naral

The difference being, you are not forced to compete against the TF2 players (simply don't play against them) or raid against the WoW guilds. 

You are forced to inhabit the same setting (0,0 space) with the ass hats in EVE because it *is* the only world. That's why my friends were put off.

The only reason that is done is because the players are the end game. The inevitable drama that ensues from making all the high level players compete against each other is the content of the game. I actually just finished reading about 5 pages of forum "smug"  from enemies of my alliance mixed in with intermittent "tears" and "excuses" from my alliance's forum moutherpieces. Even being on the losing end of things its still thoroughly enjoyable to read all the chestbeating, trolling, and nerdrage that ensues as a result of battles in the game. Its interesting because it is one world.

and this my friends is why we should be playing MMO's. Reread that paragraph...drama, excuses, compete against each other, "tears", "excuses" chestbeating, trolling, nerdrage...and most importantly..."even though I was on the losing side"..."i still enjoyed it."

You can't find this in Skyrim...and I play Skyrim. Many other MMO's don't offer this. Thanks for coming to the board and making a clear and concise statement about why EvE, even with it's "spreadsheet layout", "boring combat", "red box vs red box" combat, is still the best, hands down MMO out there.

Originally posted by CactusJack

Originally posted by Calfis

Originally posted by Naral

The difference being, you are not forced to compete against the TF2 players (simply don't play against them) or raid against the WoW guilds. 

You are forced to inhabit the same setting (0,0 space) with the ass hats in EVE because it *is* the only world. That's why my friends were put off.

The only reason that is done is because the players are the end game. The inevitable drama that ensues from making all the high level players compete against each other is the content of the game. I actually just finished reading about 5 pages of forum "smug"  from enemies of my alliance mixed in with intermittent "tears" and "excuses" from my alliance's forum moutherpieces. Even being on the losing end of things its still thoroughly enjoyable to read all the chestbeating, trolling, and nerdrage that ensues as a result of battles in the game. Its interesting because it is one world.

and this my friends is why we should be playing MMO's. Reread that paragraph...drama, excuses, compete against each other, "tears", "excuses" chestbeating, trolling, nerdrage...and most importantly..."even though I was on the losing side"..."i still enjoyed it."

You can't find this in Skyrim...and I play Skyrim. Many other MMO's don't offer this. Thanks for coming to the board and making a clear and concise statement about why EvE, even with it's "spreadsheet layout", "boring combat", "red box vs red box" combat, is still the best, hands down MMO out there.

This is also why this will never be popular though.

Joe Averageguy doesn't come for the drama and stays for the nerdrage.

Joe Averageguy especially doesn't like getting offended in his free time either. When I think about it, you need to have a very specific personality to actually enjoy this, like it takes a very specific personality to enjoy 4chan.

Originally posted by AdamTM

Originally posted by CactusJack

Originally posted by Calfis

Originally posted by Naral

The difference being, you are not forced to compete against the TF2 players (simply don't play against them) or raid against the WoW guilds. 

You are forced to inhabit the same setting (0,0 space) with the ass hats in EVE because it *is* the only world. That's why my friends were put off.

The only reason that is done is because the players are the end game. The inevitable drama that ensues from making all the high level players compete against each other is the content of the game. I actually just finished reading about 5 pages of forum "smug"  from enemies of my alliance mixed in with intermittent "tears" and "excuses" from my alliance's forum moutherpieces. Even being on the losing end of things its still thoroughly enjoyable to read all the chestbeating, trolling, and nerdrage that ensues as a result of battles in the game. Its interesting because it is one world.

and this my friends is why we should be playing MMO's. Reread that paragraph...drama, excuses, compete against each other, "tears", "excuses" chestbeating, trolling, nerdrage...and most importantly..."even though I was on the losing side"..."i still enjoyed it."

You can't find this in Skyrim...and I play Skyrim. Many other MMO's don't offer this. Thanks for coming to the board and making a clear and concise statement about why EvE, even with it's "spreadsheet layout", "boring combat", "red box vs red box" combat, is still the best, hands down MMO out there.

This is also why this will never be popular though.

Joe Averageguy doesn't come for the drama and stays for the nerdrage.

Joe Averageguy especially doesn't like getting offended in his free time either. When I think about it, you need to have a very specific personality to actually enjoy this, like it takes a very specific personality to enjoy 4chan.

Define popular. EVE is one of the most popular p2p MMOs on the market right now, so I'd say quite a few people have this "very specific personality" to be able to enjoy this game.

Originally posted by Kyleran

I wish more developers would take this approach and narrow the focus down of their games so that they make a small subset more or less happy instead of a large number of folks all wishing their games were something else.

You know, I hesitated for a long time before replying to this thread, but seriously, you should come check out Vendetta Online.  It gets compared to Eve a lot, although I don't think that comparison is really fair, or honest.  Vendetta is probably a lot closer to the "PT Boat" end of the spectrum when it comes to combat, which agrees with me just fine.  Vendetta's market share is also probably much smaller than Eve's, making it a game that fills a niche within a niche.  Nonetheless, it is hands down my favorite gaming experience, and the only one I still take time to play.  I like the fact that it is first-person (third-person "over the shoulder" in Android), and focuses on player reflexes, timing, and spatial awareness.  I'm also heavily involved in the PCC, which has been a creative outlet, and versatile medium over the years.

A line of dialogue I had with one of my prisoners the other day in www.starquestonline.net.