Honestly though, these big companies like EA, Bioware know how stupid the consumer is and crap out a game like SWTOR and call it an MMO with a sub fee.  I think over half the people who bought SWTOR did no research on the game and simply bought it for its name which hurts the MMO industry. Say these consumers where new to the MMO genre and their first game is SWTOR.  They probably wont give any other MMO game out there a chance because of how SWTOR is. I couldnt merit SWTOR being an MMO at all. 

Having ragged on SWTOR I'm tryng to say that players need to try games that are made by developers they have never heard of before.  There are tons of MMOs out there(just check the list that this site has!) to try out and people on these forums cry about their newly bought game because it doesnt have this "feature" or  the UI is the same as WoW or something. Speaking of UI can anyone think of a better way to show a skill bar?(didnt think so) There are games out there that let you customize your UI , you just have to look.   There are going to be UI that look the same because they work and why try to fix something that isnt broken? 

Check out LOTRO, your traditional run of the mill MMO. Made by Turbine. Its a good game but nobody talks about it because its not made by Blizzard, Bioware, or NCsoft.  

How is League of Legends an MMO?  It is a MOBA.  The game is a 5v5 hero battle arena...... If League of Legends is an MMO than Call of Duty is an MMO and so if every other moultiplayer game out there. 

For the sake of new companies trying to get their business going please players, I say try out their game by beta or trial.  

Originally posted by Theonenoni

Honestly though, these big companies like EA, Bioware know how stupid the consumer is and crap out a game like SWTOR and call it an MMO with a sub fee.  I think over half the people who bought SWTOR did no research on the game and simply bought it for its name which hurts the MMO industry. Say these consumers where new to the MMO genre and their first game is SWTOR.  They probably wont give any other MMO game out there a chance because of how SWTOR is. I couldnt merit SWTOR being an MMO at all. 

Having ragged on SWTOR I'm tryng to say that players need to try games that are made by developers they have never heard of before.  There are tons of MMOs out there(just check the list that this site has!) to try out and people on these forums cry about their newly bought game because it doesnt have this "feature" or  the UI is the same as WoW or something. Speaking of UI can anyone think of a better way to show a skill bar?(didnt think so) There are games out there that let you customize your UI , you just have to look.   There are going to be UI that look the same because they work and why try to fix something that isnt broken? 

Check out LOTRO, your traditional run of the mill MMO. Made by Turbine. Its a good game but nobody talks about it because its not made by Blizzard, Bioware, or NCsoft.  

How is League of Legends an MMO?  It is a MOBA.  The game is a 5v5 hero battle arena...... If League of Legends is an MMO than Call of Duty is an MMO and so if every other moultiplayer game out there. 

For the sake of new companies trying to get their business going please players, I say try out their game by beta or trial.  

I'm all for trying new things, but people have different tastes. SWTOR is a good addition to the MMO realm because it adds more variety for players to choose from. Personally I'd rather have a tougher, longer-lasting game to play, but for those who genuinely enjoy SWTOR, I say more power to them. I'm playing it for now, and it does have some value to it. I doubt it'll hold my interest for long, but really, I dont get why so many people want to insult others just because they have different likes/dislikes. I genuinely dont understand this.

I'm not sure what you're compaining about.

LOTRO is in top 10 games score wise on this website and it's quite  a popular game.

It has a huge playerbase too, at least according to Xfire

most games that are worth mentioning/playing have enough players. 

trying games by smaller companies that are not in the spotlight will only lead one to a conclusion that most MMOs are a cheap  copy of one another. there are very few games made by small companies that are fun/successful and are worth playing (I can only think of one - Eve Online)

I sort of agree with what you mean. You have remember that a large portion of MMO players are people that started with World of Warcraft. They know next to nothing about any of this or rather, very few of them are starting to learn how most MMOs are made to drain money. They give themselves the delusion that games require 15 dollars a month just to keep running and pay the staff when it's not the case at all anymore. Servers don't cost that much to run now days and some games have proven that large exspansion packs work as do cosmetic micro transactions.

You'll notice though, that they same people who complain any form of microtransaction are the same ones who stupidly assume that an MMO has to be play to play to be good. That was true 8 to 10 years ago, but not anymore. Most MMOs are built around the idea that people will keep paying money to access the game itself or chunks of content. While the good ones are built around the idea that if the game is good enough people will play so long that they'll eventually invest real money into the game because they've already placed time into having fun with the game (guild wars is the best example of this)

For free to play games, MMO is a tag tied to almost everything.  MMOFPS?  BS, MMOFPS is reserved for games like Planetside, not a game with a lobby and 8v8 game rooms... there's nothing MMO about the latter.  Could you tag MAG as an MMO?  Maybe, I think that's truly a debatable title because it handles 256 players in one game room, but not something that handles 8v8s.  I don't know if League of Legends is deemed an MMO or not, at least officially.  It's one thing for the publisher of the game to claim that their game is an MMO, it's another for someone else to claim that.  Because it's free to play, it's something that that crowd is simply used to... to the point where I don't even think people realize it.

I'm sure if Call of Duty were to have a free to play version, it would be deemed an MMOFPS.

Originally posted by Theonenoni

Honestly though, these big companies like EA, Bioware know how stupid the consumer is and crap out a game like SWTOR and call it an MMO with a sub fee.  I think over half the people who bought SWTOR did no research on the game and simply bought it for its name which hurts the MMO industry. Say these consumers where new to the MMO genre and their first game is SWTOR.  They probably wont give any other MMO game out there a chance because of how SWTOR is. I couldnt merit SWTOR being an MMO at all. 

Having ragged on SWTOR I'm tryng to say that players need to try games that are made by developers they have never heard of before.  There are tons of MMOs out there(just check the list that this site has!) to try out and people on these forums cry about their newly bought game because it doesnt have this "feature" or  the UI is the same as WoW or something. Speaking of UI can anyone think of a better way to show a skill bar?(didnt think so) There are games out there that let you customize your UI , you just have to look.   There are going to be UI that look the same because they work and why try to fix something that isnt broken? 

Check out LOTRO, your traditional run of the mill MMO. Made by Turbine. Its a good game but nobody talks about it because its not made by Blizzard, Bioware, or NCsoft.  

How is League of Legends an MMO?  It is a MOBA.  The game is a 5v5 hero battle arena...... If League of Legends is an MMO than Call of Duty is an MMO and so if every other moultiplayer game out there. 

For the sake of new companies trying to get their business going please players, I say try out their game by beta or trial.  

I agree about LOTRO. It is very good game, been playing it myself for last 4 years. Its not the best mmo, but than there is no such thing as perfect mmo. We all find something what we like or dislike in games and stick with it, no matter what.

And, it is maybe for better that LOTRO and D&D alike are low on radar. People who enjoy good community, good lore, etc... will find and gladly play those mmos. People who have other ideas are better left to play something else. And no, iam not a elitist, I just prefer to play with people who care for game. 

I'm sorry for buying ToR, having fun, and getting my money's worth.  I'm very truly sorry.

The only problem is games are a product, they may be free to play they might be subscription based but since the servers don't run for free, staff need paying and bandwidth most definitely is not free then if you want it, like most products, you have to pay for it. Otherwise no financial support no game. Crash burn etc, Big names can bring in that money.

So much anger in the interwebs...

League of Legends is not classified as an MMO, it is a MOBA. Even if the into to the game itself, it asks if you are familiar with this game type before launching you into the tutorial. The company has never claimed it to be an MMO, and only someone ignorant of the MOBO genre would call it an MMO.

As for SWTOR, its an MMO because it has the potential to have a more social gaming experience. The players choosing to play it as a duo (co-op) is the players decision. Yes the game is more fun that way, and yes its mostly designed that way, but you have the "ability" to play in larger groups, the game just sucks that way. Ive said since day 1 it should have always been marketed as "KOTOR co-op", at least people would have known what they were paying for.

I was lured in with the thoughts of a discussion about games and companies (both plural), and found out it was just another "I hate SW:TOR" thread.

I'll give you a e-point for luring me in though.

Originally posted by Axehilt

I'm sorry for buying ToR, having fun, and getting my money's worth.  I'm very truly sorry.

Me, too. 

And I'm also sorry that I find it unlikely that "big companies" are cackling with glee as they deliberately create a "non-MMO" for the sole purpose of pulling one over on the gaming public.

But then, maybe it was done to cut corners... cuz ya know... a LFG utility certainly would be far more difficult and expensive than Full VO and cutscenes.  Maybe they're just lazy.

I played Lotro for couple of years and it turned into complete garbage. Hence the p2w conversion too btw. OP was probably thinking for days how to start yet another SWTOR bashing thread and this is the fruit of your labours? Think more, use some imagination!

Originally posted by Axehilt

I'm sorry for buying ToR, having fun, and getting my money's worth.  I'm very truly sorry.

You should be, man.  Obviously EA bamboozled you into thinking it was not only an MMO, but a fun one.  They did the same to me, too.  Thank God the OP was here to clear the haze for me.  Unfortunately, I left Lotro for SWTOR because I found SWTOR much more enjoyable.  Now whatever shall I do?

Originally posted by Theonenoni

Honestly though, these big companies like EA, Bioware know how stupid the consumer is and crap out a game like SWTOR and call it an MMO with a sub fee.  I think over half the people who bought SWTOR did no research on the game and simply bought it for its name which hurts the MMO industry. Say these consumers where new to the MMO genre and their first game is SWTOR.  They probably wont give any other MMO game out there a chance because of how SWTOR is. I couldnt merit SWTOR being an MMO at all. 

Having ragged on SWTOR I'm tryng to say that players need to try games that are made by developers they have never heard of before.  There are tons of MMOs out there(just check the list that this site has!) to try out and people on these forums cry about their newly bought game because it doesnt have this "feature" or  the UI is the same as WoW or something. Speaking of UI can anyone think of a better way to show a skill bar?(didnt think so) There are games out there that let you customize your UI , you just have to look.   There are going to be UI that look the same because they work and why try to fix something that isnt broken? 

Check out LOTRO, your traditional run of the mill MMO. Made by Turbine. Its a good game but nobody talks about it because its not made by Blizzard, Bioware, or NCsoft.  

How is League of Legends an MMO?  It is a MOBA.  The game is a 5v5 hero battle arena...... If League of Legends is an MMO than Call of Duty is an MMO and so if every other moultiplayer game out there. 

For the sake of new companies trying to get their business going please players, I say try out their game by beta or trial.  

Im wondering who told you LoL is an MMO.... 

Originally posted by Theonenoni

Honestly though, these big companies like EA, Bioware know how stupid the consumer is and crap out a game like SWTOR and call it an MMO with a sub fee.  I think over half the people who bought SWTOR did no research on the game and simply bought it for its name which hurts the MMO industry. Say these consumers where new to the MMO genre and their first game is SWTOR.  They probably wont give any other MMO game out there a chance because of how SWTOR is. I couldnt merit SWTOR being an MMO at all. 

Having ragged on SWTOR I'm tryng to say that players need to try games that are made by developers they have never heard of before.  There are tons of MMOs out there(just check the list that this site has!) to try out and people on these forums cry about their newly bought game because it doesnt have this "feature" or  the UI is the same as WoW or something. Speaking of UI can anyone think of a better way to show a skill bar?(didnt think so) There are games out there that let you customize your UI , you just have to look.   There are going to be UI that look the same because they work and why try to fix something that isnt broken? 

Check out LOTRO, your traditional run of the mill MMO. Made by Turbine. Its a good game but nobody talks about it because its not made by Blizzard, Bioware, or NCsoft.  

How is League of Legends an MMO?  It is a MOBA.  The game is a 5v5 hero battle arena...... If League of Legends is an MMO than Call of Duty is an MMO and so if every other moultiplayer game out there. 

For the sake of new companies trying to get their business going please players, I say try out their game by beta or trial.  

Nothing wrong with TOR. Plus, it got decent reviews.

They have 1.7M subs .. so someone must like it. The fact that you do not says very little.

I do like LOTRO and it is doing fine.

And LoL is FREE .. so no one is duping into paying anything ... unless you are really into the game and want more stuff.

I highly doubt most consumers care one way or another of whether you call a game MMO .. if the game is fun and good, they will pay and play. Otherwise, good luck.

Hope you are up to date on all of your shots, because it seems the fanboys are rabid today.

Originally posted by Goatgod76

Hope you are up to date on all of your shots, because it seems the fanboys are rabid today.

They act like SWTOR has subs purely on the value of its experience. Just like they did with WoW. Its pathetic and embarrassing. Sure SWTOR is a fun game, but that is not the most important reason for its success just as it wasn't for WoW. A game is only required to be good enough. After that its all marketing.

Originally posted by Cuathon

They act like SWTOR has subs purely on the value of its experience. Just like they did with WoW. Its pathetic and embarrassing. Sure SWTOR is a fun game, but that is not the most important reason for its success just as it wasn't for WoW. A game is only required to be good enough. After that its all marketing.

If at launch, or in the years following its release, a game with geniunely superior gameplay to WOW had relesed, I would've played that game.  Marketing doesn't matter at all to me; I'm a gamer, I try everything and stay with whatever offers the strongest gameplay.

Instead what happened is that I'm settling for games that are only 80-90% as fun as WOW was, purely because WOW is super old at this point.

Marketing doesn't hold subscriptions.  Gameplay does.  WOW's gameplay happened to be the best for many years (and arguably still is, if you factor out the "been there, done that" effect.)

We'll see what happens to number of SW:TOR  subs in a half a year.  My guess is the sub growth rate will have been greatly reduced by that point even if total number of subs is still growing due to lag period.  That should give enough time for players to re-roll a few times and then get sick enough to deactivate their parents' plastic (well... maybe).  Regardless, we'll find out soon the direction ToR is headed.