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2/08/12 2:29:51 PM#21
Originally posted by Garvon3 AoC, LotrO, FF14, TERA and Aion ARE already out, so yes, let's go there. Even Rift and DCUO look like a step up from an EQ2 and CoX in graphical quality, with games like AOC, TERA, FF14 and Aion unquestionably a large step up from what MMO's looked like in 2004. Besides that, we already know what can be expected in graphical quality from the games being launched this year which make the gap between 2004 graphics and 2012 graphics even larger. Sounds to me like you're blinding yourself for reality for the simple (and imo silly) reason that you dislike themepark MMO's and what in your eyes the MMO genre should have been by now -_- |
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2/08/12 2:31:56 PM#22
Originally posted by smh_alot
Looks like what I predicted has already begun, as evidenced by many of the replies to your post. This has become yet another "innovation" thread where if something had at all been done similarly, or even that the problem the advancement solved was patched up in some other way in the past, then it becomes immediately disqualified. But I appreciate your efforts, and pretty much agree with the examples you give. I mean, we even have people saying graphics have deteriated since EQ. There's just no reasoning with someone that believes something like that. |
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2/08/12 2:36:01 PM#23
I played EQ, DAoC and those are new things that those games didn't have in them. I loved DAoC and considered it my favorite game along with SWG, but leveling in PvP is a big Stretch. Just because something had something somewhat close or related doesn't make the one that actually made it work properly not a innovation. Many of EQ2 innovations came years after its introduction, so not counting those as many were copied from current games to help them compete ( a good thing). Also forgot about SWG - Player run cities Gathered materials that had varing quality Classes that didn't involve warfare Cool vehicles including space ships HUGH Pets! |
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Zyllos
 Advanced Member
Joined: 9/11/05
"You do not get old and stop playing, you stop playing then get old." -- Benjamin Franklin |
2/08/12 2:37:51 PM#24
Originally posted by Garvon3 That is not even close to the same thing as a PQ as a PQ actually had quests involved and did not require a formal group. MMOs Played: I can no longer list them all in the 500 character limit. |
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2/08/12 2:37:55 PM#25
Originally posted by Lille7 So? Technical advances are still technical advances whether YOU like it or not. They are a) new, b) popular, and they are here to stay. |
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2/08/12 2:42:52 PM#26
Originally posted by RobsolfOriginally posted by smh_alot True, you're right. And yes, the fact that people, at least the people who dislike themepark MMO's and the current state of the MMO genre to the point of irrationality, try to make a point that even graphics haven't improved since 2004 is a perfect example of it. Some people simply refuse to acknowledge any improvement of the past years because apparently it doesn't fit in their whole 'hmpf, nothin' good about MMO's since 2004' idee fixe. |
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2/08/12 2:57:14 PM#27
/shrug everyting that we consider "new" is just a rewrite / evolution of old mechanics and technics that were long technical possible but simply not done due to user systems having limmets. cant realy speak of technical adv in mmo's since as mentioned above they are based on evolutions of older machanics, tweaks if you like or simply taken from other gerne's and put into mmo's as hardware becomes better. Xsyon (tho we cant call that a finished mmo) is technical adv I supose, one of the few games that allows actual terrain modification in realtime even tho that techniqe is quite old , same story again, its hardware contrains (and scared developers whitout vission) why we havent seen it wide spread yet. I dont think we even should wish for more technical adv then we have now, what we need is a developer who takes a good long look at mmo's are graps everyting from every mmo in terms of game mechanics and puts it togetter. infact I dont think there is any more adv possible at all untill we get a whole new system of grapics rendering that allows super modification in real time of the game world. everyting that can be done has bin done either already in mmo's or in other game gerne's , its just a matter of we put the tech in a white Apple system or a shiny black samsung .. on the outside to us players it looks diferent but on the inside its all the same made in taiwan. LFGroup LFGui;d, LFraid, LFPublicQ, LFRoleplay,LFPlayer-v-Player,LFInsert someting new, its all the same old shit, it just got a new fancy UI box and a extra DB entree , nothing new or technical advancement about it, just a clever way to make gamers life easyer or dumber or faster or whatever reason its put in. Developers have everyting on a plate, from indepth living breating worlds to fast action gameplay to awesome UI design and controll scemes . .its all out there to watch learn from and put into a awesome game. all that matters to them developers now is how much money they got, but more importand how devoted the developers are themself, a small "poor" developer team is more likely to make the next Golden super mmo then any of the big game houses , just like the old baker on the corner makes better bread then the factory baker. its all about love. |
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2/08/12 3:07:37 PM#28
"Developers have everyting on a plate, from indepth living breating worlds to fast action gameplay to awesome UI design and controll scemes . .its all out there to watch learn from and put into a awesome game. all that matters to them developers now is how much money they got, but more importand how devoted the developers are themself, a small "poor" developer team is more likely to make the next Golden super mmo then any of the big game houses , just like the old baker on the corner makes better bread then the factory baker. its all about love" . Unfortunately we all have differing opinions on how to achieve those ends. I believe end games should be about RvR in some meaningful way or maybe player built cities with a purpose. I don't care about raids or item hunting in dungeogns for the sake of becoming leet! I like bringing a character up but become bored at the end games so just make another character instead. Anyways there is no conspiracy or secret formula that is going to make us gamers happy no matter how much money or love is invested by the producer, after all he is making his vision and not yours or my vision! |
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2/08/12 3:14:31 PM#29
Originally posted by smh_alot The MMO's in Red have NOT released yet, and are not counted as "advancements" until they release for us to ACTUALLY see first hand if they are advancements or just rehashings with "Bloom" cranked up to hide the imperfections of an aging graphics technique. The MMO's in Green cannot be considered "graphical advances" simply because those are MINOR aspects to the graphics as a whole. Aion's world design, effects, terrain, and animations are absolutely horrible. LOTRO's World Design is the ONLY aspect of their graphics that have advanced, again a minor part of the overall GFX. Finally, FFXIV's only, again minor, "advancement" is their detail to monster models. Overall, none of these features impact the overall "Graphics" of these games whatsoever. At the end of the day, only acknowledging MINOR parts does NOT mean they've advanced.
However, Age of Conan is still up for debate in terms of "Graphical Advancement". The models are well done in terms of "realistic" looking (except for the weird boobs they have going on in that game). The landscaping is well done in SOME places, and horrible in others, and the animations are decently done enough for what it is. However, I wouldn't say Age of Conan is a REAL step forward.
I am, however, looking closely @ ArcheAge, TERA, and Planetside II. GW2 just seems like they're reusing the same texturing & modeling techniques from GW1. So far, I haven't seen anything hands on from GW2 that has impressed me. I know you REALLY want GW2 to be the next "saviour" of our genre, but right now I'm not seeing it. I honestly believe that one of AA, TERA, or PS2 will be that "saviour". |
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2/08/12 3:35:00 PM#30
Originally posted by FadedbombOriginally posted by smh_alot Christ. Skip the fucking prejudice and personal taste for once, ok? I don't give a damn what games you regard as your personal saviour or favorite nor that you seem to believe that I think GW2 will be some saviour MMO, which I don't.
We're talking graphics here and advances in them, and you're being irrational simply bc you dislike MMO's of the past 6-7 years for whatever odd reason.
Sorry, but AoC's graphics ARE an upgrade in quality and its DX11 effects, anyone with an inch of objectivity can see the difference with 2004 period of MMO graphics. Same with LotrO's world design, Aion's world design but especially its character models, APB's graphics where you can upload your own custom made skins for usage on ingame objects, FFXIV, Rift, Vindictus, TERA (that has been out and playable since early 2011) etc. You can dismiss this little tidbit or that one, but the overall pictures of all these MMO's taken together show a definite advancement in graphics compared to what was present in 2004 MMO's.
Also an advancement that clearly continues in the upcoming MMO's like GW2, AA and TSW that are as good as here and that show a graphical level that far surpasses that of MMO's in 2004. That there are people who even try to dismiss that difference in 2004 and 2012 graphics, I have no words for it. I find it dumbfounding and beyond ridiculous >.<
edit: after rereading your post, I think I get it. You only want to acknowledge advancements in MMO's that you're looking forward to. It seems that if you dislike this or that MMO or are indifferent about it, then you also ignore any merit in graphical advancement. Get real and objective. |
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2/08/12 3:47:46 PM#31
Originally posted by smh_alot Slow down there cowboy. I think its fair to say that the range of technical graphic qualities between 2004 -2012 in the PC world far outpaced the same years in the MMO world.
Just as a point of reference does your game have rainbow sprinkles and magic ponies!? |
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2/08/12 3:52:52 PM#32
Originally posted by SEANMCAD Of course MMO graphics will never have the same quality as singlegame graphics of the same period, for the obvious reasons. However, looking at what graphics there were in singleplayer games and MMO's in 2004, and looking at how they are in singleplayer games and MMO's in 2012, I think that difference is a lot smaller than you give it credit for. Frankly, this whole 'MMO's have stood still and deteriorated in every way since I stopped liking them (2004) while singleplayer games have grown so much!' meme that some (ex?) MMO gamers seem to carry on is getting tiresome and outdated. And this kinda black & white thinking is simply not true. |
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2/08/12 4:00:54 PM#33
You could argue that all games, mmo or otherwise are pretty stagant in regards to breaking ground in areas other than graphics. Other than smell and taste, there doesn't appear to be too much else you can do with a game, but lets face it, most don't even get the basics right. You'd think there was no shortage of good (or bad) examples to improve upon but instead, games companies continue to make the same mistakes over and over again. A simple example being the lack of a guild bank in SWTOR. Like that lesson wasn't learned before with Rift and other games. I say to hell with innovation, lets get the basics right first.
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2/08/12 4:03:31 PM#34
Originally posted by smh_alot agreed. In all fairness I jumped in on the conversation and just wanted to make that reference point. actually in my mind PC games have stagnated as well although the rumor I have heard is that Skrim is more in the flavor or Morrowind than of Obvlion which has me curious. I havent bought a single player PC game in a very long time.. does your game have rainbow sprinkles and magic ponies!? |
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2/08/12 4:44:49 PM#35
Originally posted by SEANMCADOriginally posted by smh_alot I think it's like movies and tv shows, people look at only a part of the whole picture and then make a conclusion about the whole. You have bad movies and cliche blockbusters but you also have great movies, you have a whole host of mindnumbing reality shows, but also tv shows like Game of Thrones or Boardwalk Empire or Walking Dead. Same with MMO's, or with singleplayer games, you have a MW3 and SC2 that seem like a continuation of the old, but also a BF3 or Skyrim or Zelda: Skyward Sword or Heavy Rain or Red Dead Redemption or Deus Ex 3 or LA Noire that each seem to have their own unique quality they bring with them.
Originally posted by jacklo That's actually a good point too, some good improvements aren't picked up by other MMO's, while some known MMO problems aren't dealt with. |
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2/09/12 4:14:44 AM#36
Graphics, but not animation. Graphics, but not performance. Graphics, but not clipping. Graphics, but not A.I. Graphics, but not challenge. Graphics, but not art style. Graphics, but not smooth edges. Graphics, but not bug-free releases. Graphics, but not graphical errors and crashes.
Did I mention Graphics? Oh wait...in the past 5 years? Not even graphics, honestly. |
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2/09/12 4:20:47 AM#37
Originally posted by nariusseldon *A tear rolls down his cheek, his eyes cracked red with water. As he shifts his eyes toward heaven erupting in a flow of tears with a razer blade digging into the bleeding vein of his tied wrist, he speaks upwards to the heavens, "W...wh....why?" Giving up final hope, the razer blade swiftly cuts through like red wine flowing into a river stream. For there is no hope left for the MMO Gamer, and group-centric, no-EZ-mode, depth of gameplay MMORPG's have died a long, long time ago*
Er um, something like that. Because reading this as a major technical advance makes me want to /wrist. Seriously. Wow. |
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2/09/12 4:25:46 AM#38
Originally posted by jacklo I think you meant, "In areas including graphics."
Honestly, game still have horrendous clipping problems, awful animations, and lackluster art appeal. |
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2/09/12 4:32:36 AM#39
Since when is 8+ years considered a few? Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling" |
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2/09/12 11:59:27 AM#40
Originally posted by LeegOfChldrn
So you don't like it. It is popular, and certainly a new funcationality. And if you cry of "WHY" is not rhetorical, then the answer will be: 1) get rid of the inconvenience that players do not want, and 2) revive old dungeons as a viable way to level I found it great and add more fun to the game. And my guess is .. most MMO games will start adding this functionality.
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